dancerjodi

Thanks for the cottage info! Though, did you need to rent a car? We're not messing with driving on the wrong side of the road there :)

The train takes 8 hours - that's a whole waste of a day! Unless of course, we did an overnight train or something . . .

I just need time to sit with my Frommer's guide (and who knows when the hell I'll be able to do that). Its basically 2 months away, and I don't do things at the last minute . . . so the whole process is bugging me.

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Honestly, the driving on the wrong side was not a big deal. You picked it up in a day or so.

We did it in Ireland and Australia.

Just keep reminding "turn left, aim left!"

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andrewfeland.livejournal.com

Yes, we did rent a car, and while Heather didn't have a problem driving around, I spent much of my automotive time fearing for my very soul. Driving on the wrong side of the road won't kill you as quickly as driving down these tiny little Roman roads that were only made wide enough for two wagons; you're driving the little Peugot that was all you could afford, a car so small that the gearshift is actually a little clicky thing on the windshield wiper control, and barrelling at you at around 150 kph is the largest Land Rover ever manufactured.

Oh, and the road has no shoulder. Indeed, it's been cut into a hillside and lined with stone, so there's a brick wall about 2 centimeters from the passenger-side window, and while it's close enough that you could probably identify the type of moss growing in between the bricks, it's moving quickly enough that you can't even make out individual stones.

Yeah. Calming experience, that. :P

Also, if you can find a cheap flight, take it. I keep forgetting how long it takes to take a train from one end of the UK to the other--we were travelling side-to-side, not top-to-bottom, and it only took us a couple of hours.

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check out iceland air. sign up for their lucky fares, too. the savings are great, and you connect through iceland. they even have deals where you go to england, and can stay over in iceland for a couple days for no penalty on the airfare.

also, my cousin just did a stonehenge/avebury tour which got him in stonehenge just after closing and you get to walk among the stone!!! i was quite jealous. lemme know if you want the name of that tour.

way back when, my friend and i took the train to edinburgh from london. it was a long journey, but we had a rail pass to use.

i've got some out of date tour books if you'd like to borrow them to look at for general information. (rough guide, lonely planet)

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Thanks for the info!

"i've got some out of date tour books if you'd like to borrow them to look at for general information. (rough guide, lonely planet)"

That would be cool! I have a Scotland book, but nothing on London.

And whenever I see you, I can give you the squishy toys (if you still want them) :)

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We loved our day trips out of London with Astral Travels.

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that'd be awesome. next goffee you guys go to i'll bring them along.

i also stumbled across this website: landmark trust which rents out historic homes. it seemed really neato but does involve planning ahead.

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lachesis.livejournal.com

I have a 2000 London and Paris guides - Dorling Kindersley Travel Guides - that my stepmother bought; they been all over the world so I knew the guides woud be useful as a ref point (and they were!). If you have specific questions about England/Scotland, I can also ask them via email (or give it to you), since much of my family still lives over there.

I should be in town on Thursday if you want the books.

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Would you be at goffee on Thursday? It would be cool to see you (and, I could borrow the London book).

We have a good Scotland one, and are also going to try and get in touch with Graham (Brian's old co-worker, he lives in Edinburgh now) :)

Thanks!

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Could you find out from your cousin about the Stonhenge store that he did? It would be great to walk around the stones :)

Thanks in advance!

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from london to scotland, you could either fly (I'd suggest either ryanair or easyjet for super cheap airfare, especially if you fly out of either standsted or luton) or you can take a train, which i think departs from either cambridge, though theremight be one from King's Cross too...that will get you to either Edinburgh or Glasgow. we took the train from cambridge..the train was about 5 hours or so i think..

haggis tours is supposed to be -excellent- as far as organized tours go, as they are geared mostly towards students abd backpackers. although we rented a car and drove from edinburgh through the highlands and skipped glasgow

there is so much to see in scotland that it really warrants its own vacation (i know ethan and i are planning on going back, we only spent 5 days and it hardly seemed enough)...if you can take 1.5 or 2 weeks to see england/scotland and maybe wales, thatwould be key, though even then you'd be rushed...though london is fantastic, especially if you've never been before, which has more than enough to entertain you for a week as well...

perhaps you could look into getting an open jaw ticket, so you can fly into london and out of scotland?

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also, depending on wheh you are flying, try icelandair for their lucky fares program. i got tickets to iceland/england for $300 once, but i had to fly in march...in the spring and summer prices will go up horrifically and then you'd be better off going through travelocity or something.

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pir.livejournal.com

Trains going north from Cambridge are a pain, unless it's local you have to change several times. Leaving from London generally means more direct and faster trains.

UK train timetable stuff;
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/planmyjourney/time_table/journey_requirements.asp

Flying may be faster but it depends on how long it takes to get to and from the airports (and the train gives you a nice view up the coastline), flight might actually be cheaper depends on dates, easyjet (http://www.easyjet.co.uk/), ryanair (http://www.ryanair.co.uk/) and BA (http://www.britishairways.com/) are who I'd check for prices. Personally I prefer the train, should be a bit over 4 hours London->Ed for an express and no early arrivals or check-in or anything like that.

As to timing, even on area the UK is the size of a decent area US state and has 2/5ths of the population of the total US. Density, lots of things to see, I've travelled extensively in England and Scotland all my life and there are still things I want to see...

In 2 weeks you can see a few highlights of London and Edinburgh and perhaps a couple of other small sites... I usually go to England for between 2 and 3 weeks. Two weeks plus the surrounding weekends looks appealing but generally means for more expensive flights (if you fly midweek the prices are often much better).

Don't leave it too late to go, flight prices go up dramaticly as the season changes. I tend to go to England in March or October when it's warmer over there than here and the prices are cheaper. I tend to fly BA or Virgin, they have flight specials periodicly if you get on their email lists now.

I don't do Icelandair because it adds extra time to the flight and an airport change; when you're already going to be on a plane for 6 to 8 hours adding an hour or two and the risk of not making a connection it isn't worth it, IMO (the last time

fidgetmonster booked an Iceland air flight she got stuck in Iceland due to weather problems for another 6 hours, I got stuck at the airport in London waiting for her having landed early. Not worth it).

If you're travelling around a lot then I'd pick up a Bed & Breakfast guide at a bookshop (there are many companies selling them, pick the one that has the most listings for the areas you want to be in). B&Bs are cheap and usually nice and comfortable in Scotland but tend to be expensive and "eh" in London (but then everything is expensive in London). I can give you details of the last place I stayed in Edinburgh that I quite liked and was a reasonable walk from the Royal Mile.

If you're not comfortable driving then there are limits on what you can do, but London and Edinburgh are both perfectly doable without (and you really wouldn't want a car in London).

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huh..well when i was staying in england this fall, i was in cambridge, so we took the train from there...it was only 2 changes, but it was nice to getup and stretch so i didn't mind

i agree with the b&b guides..that made our travel around england/wales/scotland markedly cheaper (which was good since we were in cambridge for 4 months, we did lots of weekend trips)

i'm sorry iceland air turned out so bad for you!
i generally don't like their planes too much actually..butthe prices are nice and i love iceland..

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You can take an overnight bus from London to Glasgow or Edinburgh. Or a train.

I would say that a big stumbling block is that you guys dont' want to drive over there. Fly-drives are really good for independent travel. That's what we did in Ireland.

Here are some land-only Scotland vacations from go-today.com:
http://www.go-today.com/site_gtweb/pub_search.asp?p=1019&t=p
(scroll down to the land-only ones)

They have a self-drive one; if you go before 3/31/05 it's only $850pp.

Self-drive which includes:
- 7 nights reserved hotel accommodations
- Scottish breakfast daily
- 8-day mid-sized manual car rental including local tax, unlimited mileage and CDW
- Helpful driving and sightseeing tips
- Michelin maps and guide
- All hotel taxes and service charges

There's even a sample itinerary on the page. You can upgrade to an automatic and extend your nights.

The others are 2 and 3 nights, though you can extend your stay.

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snowwand.livejournal.com

I haven't been to England outside of Heathrow, so I can't attest to anything there.

Scotland, I loved Glasgow and the Highlands were a dream. You can fly from London to the Highlands (we flew into Benbecula) and then go from there to the North (Lewis, Harris, North Uist) or the South (South Uist and Eriskey). Glasgow has a subway which runs in a circle, so either way you get on, you are going in the right direction, and it wasn't too expensive when we were there. Takes you to shopping, museums, and some other fun things.

Skye is between the Highlands and Scotland and you can go to Eileen Donan there which is the castle that was used for Highlander and is breathtaking.

Hey! When you go, if I give you a few bucks could you get me some candy bars? They taste so much better coming from the UK :) hehe

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canongrrl.livejournal.com

this may just be me, but I've found it great to have a decent idea of what you want to do, but be sure to allow yourself time to "get lost" or just go off the trail. You also need to relax enough to let yourself do this. One of the great things about the UK is that language is not an issue. Taking day tours may not be a bad idea, but don't over schedule from here. Maybe pick up the stonehenge tour that was mentioned earlier (walking amoungst the stones would rock!) but for almost everything else, you can most likely book there and book for cheaper (though that is relative given the state of the dollar)

Remember to take deep breaths a lot :-)

Also, for hotels and the like, if you feel like keeping it a little more free form, in all the train stations and airports there are places that help you find hotels. They tend to be fairly discounted and almost always have something. We did this in London the last time and got a great hotel for 100$ US. I've done this on two other trips to the Europe as well and it does give you a lot more flexibility at the price of a little more hassle and the potential of not getting exactly what you want.

oh and one thing you two should have high on your list, highgate cemetary tour. It was amazing.

oh and we have a time out cheap eats london 2004 at the house, you might like this book as it really has good reviews and the food was cheap (again, for london this meant 20-40US when we were there and the pound was at 1.85). And if you want a funky guide for Scottland and London, Time out guides really are the best. By far.

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Thanks for the advice!

Any guide books that you don't have that we could borrow would be a huge help. Right now, I have a Frommer's Scotland and online reference . ..

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nepenthedreams

Oh yeah, Alli mentioned day tours.

We took a really cool walking tour in London with a company that runs a bunch of walking tours. You basically get one of their schedules and then all you have to do is show up at the listed location at the listed time, hand the guide your money, and then follow them around. We took something like "Medieval London", but they had tons on Jack the Ripper, Ghost tours, Arthurian London, whathaveyou. Again, it's the kind of thing you don't have to plan in advance, but you can do as needed.

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yeah, the first time i went to england, my friend and i were there for a month. we had a list up on the door of our flat w/all the things we wanted to see in no particular order. gradually, we worked our way through them.

what i've missed both times though: the V & A museum, Greenwich, and the tate modern & the shakespearian theater rose? globe? (only because they didn't exist at the time.)

also, day trips out to canterbury - to see the cathedral - were neat, and another trip i made it to bath and glastonbury. both awesome.

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i would only do stonehenge if i could walk around the stones...i think out of all my travels anywhere, stonehenge was the biggest let down ever. plus it eats up so much time just getting there

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oh yeah, going in late april early may is really beautiful you get the height of spring there. it's quite lovely and comfortable. the tulips were amazing near st. james park.

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andrewfeland.livejournal.com

I almost forgot, Virgin Atlantic occasionally posts travel packages on their website that seem pretty reasonable; they can include things like rail passes, hotel stays, and/or car rental in addition to airfare.

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Most of the ones on Virgin's site are ganked from go-today.com ;)

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i've flown virgin & it was really great. it was a while ago, but they treated their customers really well. :)

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tiamatlady

I can tell you three days in Edinburgh wasn't enough.
;-)

We got some guidebooks that center on Edinburgh, and also some day trips out, as well as for Scotland in General that give some idea of travel times and whatnot.

We flew British Air, but also got a package. BUT - our package was hotel and airfare ONLY - we didn't want to bother with the nonsense of being told what to do and when. Like D said - go-today dot com.

If it were ME, and I had two weeks, I'd spend 3 days in London, 3 days in Cambridge UK (admittedly there's NOTHING to do there. Nothing for YOU to do. *EVIL grin* There's someone for ME to do.) 3 days in Glasgow, and 3 in Edinburgh. I'd split my 3 days in Cambridge for you guys as one in London, and two extra in Edinburgh, or that "let's wander around the countryside" type dealy.

I'd LOVE to do that - just take a tour to a castle, spend no more than two hours on a bus from Edinburgh, just to look around at the greenery, but not long enough to waste a day or get bored. I'd allow for longer if it was a bed and breakfast overnight kind of thingy.

I'll be happy to bring my books by, and give you opinions, but I don't want to interject - I'm sure you're overwhelmed! Just let me know.

I guess the question you need to ask is - what do YOU want to do? If you want to see things, touristy or historical sights, stay near the cities. If you just want to SEE and experience, and not necessarily want to go particular places, then plan on wander mode.

PS - driving in the cities scares me, I think I could handle driving in the countryside. It's the roundabouts - they hurt my ickle mind!

PPS - I *wibble* museums and historical sights. The idea of just sitting around looking at greenery gets to me. MY idea of "enough time" in London is "never enough" hence my evil Plot of return in April. Your idea of enough might differ.

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dawntreader

if you like, i can post an entry on my journal for people to help you out with ideas. i know of at least three couples reading it who have travelled, multiple times some of them, overseas.

but i didn't know if you wanted totally unsolicited advice from strangers to you. :)

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"if you like, i can post an entry on my journal for people to help you out with ideas. i know of at least three couples reading it who have travelled, multiple times some of them, overseas."

Thanks! If you want, just make a reference to my post (any info is good info) :)

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zammis.livejournal.com

hey- here via Dawny... :)

There's a lot of good info here.. I'd add Rick Steeves to your resources (ricksteves.com) as a reasonable alternative to Frommer's etc, though Let's GO guides are also an option. Rick Steeves has tours that can give you a rough idea of a sample itinerary over there, and he also has links to places to stay in London, Edinburgh, etc. There's another book called "Sights and Bites" in London by Nancy Ackerman..she's actually a friend of a friend and she sends you to GOOD eat places there that aren't hugely expensive. :)

You do want to fly if you want to save time and money- train prices are pretty obscene over there right now, esp once you factor in the exchange rate. (about 2 dollars to one pound when I was there in September)

VirginVacations.com has some good hotel/plane packages to take care of the London things, and you can extend your return date with them to take care of your second week if you're looking at a week in London/week in Scotland. I'd rent the car (if you choose to do that) out of Edinburgh, and get an automatic. You don't want to deal with a stick and the wrong side of the road if you can help it.

Best wishes and I hope you have a marvelous time!

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zammis.livejournal.com

one more thing-- London Walks are great, and also do day trips out of london. Their site is http://london.walks.com/

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lsl.livejournal.com

we've got a lonely planet London book if you want to borrow it.

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nepenthedreams

I think you can do this, but everything is harder the first time. After planning this trip, you'll be a pro.

Sometimes, Alli and I like to book our first hotel and flights in advance and leave the rest up for when we get there. Picking a date and buying airfare is a necessary evil, but you don't even need a hotel. When we showed up in London, we went to a desk in the airport and asked them to find us a hotel. It was actually nicer than the one we booked for our return stayover!

You could take a train from London to Scotland, too, which would give you a chance to see the countryside inbetween. It's almost like a free tour. That's what we did to go from Venice to Florence, and it allowed us to make the decision when we got there.

where else to get ideas and such:
I like to go to forums like thorntree.lonelyplanet.com to ask questions, or read travel journals on igougo.com to see what other people chose to do, stay at, or eat. Sometimes people have good suggestions on how to travel from one place to another or what to do when you get there. Also, a good travel guide like the Lonely Planet guides, Rough Guides, Insight Guides...just look for the one with the most recent publishing date.

We have a Cheap Eats London book that we could lend you. We found it invaluable because the food there is expensive and it gave us tips on finding inexpensive places to eat. Oh, and if Jerry Springer: The Opera is playing there still, I can guarantee you that you guys would enjoy it!!

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"We have a Cheap Eats London book that we could lend you"

Thanks! Alli mentioned this and (I think) an old Edinburgh one. Would you be able to bring them to Man Ray on Friday night?

See you then! :)

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kmusser

Sent via a

dawntreader90

London: There is a lot to see in London - for your first time there I'd want at least 4 days, but you could easily spend several weeks there without running out of things to see. Of the really touristy sights I'd say the highlights are the Tower of London and Westminster Abbey. For off the beaten path I highly recommend the various walking tours (http://www.walks.com/). There are lots of museums, all of them very cool, but it's easy to get burnt out on them, I'd say don't try to do them all. For the rennie in you I recommend the Victoria and Albert museum - don't miss the fabric room.

Scotland: You can fly or train, train will cost you about a day of travel time. I haven't been there, so don't have many specific suggestions. If you want to get out into the highlands though, rent a car - driving on the left honestly is not a big deal (though I wouldn't recommend driving in London).

Other things if you want to see standing stones I recommend Avebury over Stonehenge, although that would take a car to get to from London - or see some in Scotland instead (http://www.scotland-inverness.co.uk/stones.htm).

On food: Dinners are expensive, lunches are much more reasonably priced. We would often eat out for lunch, stop at a grocery store and get stuff to picnic for dinner. At some point have some curry.

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righinnbear.livejournal.com

(Friend of Dawntreader90) My husband and I honeymooned in Scotland in May, 2003. All of our B&B reservations were made online and via email. Driving really isn't that bad and you find interesting places to just stop and tour if in a car (Just watch out for the sheep and sharp turns). We stopped at Urquart Castle and Braemar Castle as spur of the moment stops and were quite happy with both. Neither was on our basic itinerary. There is a program in Scotland for many of their major tourist castles where you pay a set fee and can tour a set amount of the places from their list in a 5 (I think) day period. They may have a shorter plan, too. The man at Urquhart was very nice and marked our first tour date a day later to allow for the extra day that we needed to make Stirling Castle.

If you get into Edinburgh, the bus tour of the city is quite worth it, and allows you to get on and off of the tour buses with your ticket all day to stop at other points of interest. We took the full tour once, then hopped the next bus and got off at the castle. Some of the castles have i-pod like headphone tours so that you can take your time and see the areas that you want to at your pace. The city buses are easy to use, too. Turret House is a beautiful B&B recommended by Rick Steve's Scotland book. Cozy, with a good breakfast variety.

B&B's in Scotland out of the cities ranged from 15 to 20 pounds per person per night and are easily researched online. The TI's in each town can also find ones with vacancies when you get into town.

I can't help much with England as the last time that I was there was 9 years ago. But just driving through the countryside is beautiful in both countries.

Be aware, though, that many tourist places in Scotland close to tourists over the winter and do not open until April. If they are open, they may be closed on week-ends until later in the season. Check their websites and the books. You will need cold weather clothing. We wore turtlenecks and sweaters for most of the trip and we were there in mid May.

Enjoy your planning and your trip.

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narnee.livejournal.com

We have a source for airfare (though, the price I saw didn't include fees, which costs as much as the tickets) which is good.

For when, with which airline, and for how much? I may be able to let you know of a cheaper fare; I constantly watch for cheap flights to the UK from the US, especially flying out of Logan.

But, how long would we be there (and how long Scotland)?

Go for as long as you can get the holiday time and can afford it. A fortnight should probably be the minimum otherwise you'll likely feel too rushed to really enjoy yourselves, three weeks is better, at least a month is best. How much time you should spend in London and how much time you should spend in Scotland is highly dependent on what you want to do.

How the hell would we get to Scotland (more flying I'm assuming, to make best use of the time while we're there).

Fly or train. If you fly, go EasyJet or BE or BMI -- one of the no-frills low-cost airlines that fly to Glasgow International otherwise it defeats the point of saving time. If you don't fly out of Heathrow you'll need an hour or two to get to Stansted or Luton (most don't fly out of Heathrow, but I think one does), and you don't want to fly into Glasgow Prestwick since that requires a train for an hour and a half to get into the city or Edinburgh International since it's outside of the city as well and the transport from there into the city is horrid. Glasgow Intl. is not in the city either (technically it's in Paisley, the next county over) but it only takes about 20 mins. to get into Glasgow from there. If you decide to fly, it's usually true that the sooner you book the cheaper it will be.

I'd suggest giving the train some thought, though. It leaves from the centre of London (either Euston if Virgin Trains or Kings Cross if GNER) and a direct (no changes) service takes 4-5 hours to get to Glasgow Central, Glasgow Queen St, Edinburgh Waverly, or Edinburgh Haymarket which are all in the city centres. The trip itself is gorgeous (either up the east or west coast) and it can be a lot of fun. If you take into consideration the amount of time spent having to be checked-in before your flight and the time and cost of getting to and from the airports, it may come out to about the same.

Where would we go? What would we do?

Do you want to do the city thing or the rural thing? Or both? Do you want to do touristy things or more local things? I have about a zillion suggestions, but it all depends on how you want your holiday to be and when it will be happening.

That said, if you are going to be in the city of Glasgow, wait until the rush hour is over and then purchase a day pass. It's much cheaper. Oh, and it's not true that it doesn't matter which circle you go on.

Anyway, I'd be glad to help you out with tips and stuff. And I hope to be able to see you whilst you're on this side of the pond!

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